Lessons from the Follow Up Queen with Evelyn Oluwole

[00:00:00] Evelyn, thank you so much for joining the podcast.

[00:00:03] Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Lauren.

[00:00:05] Honestly, I loved our first chat. I think we could have chatted for hours, couldn’t we? I could feel with you, Evelyn, like the energy like jumping out of the screen. Honestly, you are so

[00:00:16] that.

[00:00:17] and you’ve got loads to share, right? There’s so many cool things that you’ve done in your career, so.

[00:00:22] I thought we’d go right back to start with because we had quite similar journeys actually. We were sharing about where we started, and both of us did not start out in sales. We both studied media. We went into journalism. We both have. Or had mine’s probably past tense. Maybe yours is future, but we both love that kind of world of TV and

[00:00:45] Yes.

[00:00:47] It was, it definitely suits our personality types. Right. So I’d love to know, looking back, what was that moment that you realized, you know what, I love that world, but sales, that’s really for me.

[00:00:59] I think you would struggle to find somebody that says that they wanted to be a salesperson and they woke up and they were like, right, I wanna do sales. That is not how it happened for me. And to your point, Laura, like I love tv, I love everything about production. And when I graduated. It was like, I wanna be a TV presenter, I wanna be on the screen.

[00:01:19] And I very quickly realized that actually that was a journey and it was going to take some time. You know, I pick up a newspaper as you do back in the day, and I look at the back of the book and they’re like, you know, the specific advert was, do you have the gift of the gab?

[00:01:32] Do you love speaking to people? Do you like media? I’d done a media degree. I was like, yeah, of course I do. And that was the moment where I was like, okay, maybe there’s something in this. What is this? Media sales. So that’s kind of how I dropped into it. But I must say 20 odd years later, I’m still enjoying media sales.

[00:01:50] Good. That’s the most important thing. I love the way you say pick up a newspaper there. That is for the younger listeners, that is how we used to find jobs.

[00:01:58] Um, but I think you, you, you hit on a really important point there because. Gift of the gab is an interesting one because I think it is for people who are confident, speakers who enjoy connecting with people who enjoy conversation.

[00:02:14] Um, would you agree that’s something that for you really stands out when you think about your job in sales? I always say this, it’s, it’s a people job at the end of the day, so if you like people, this is the, the field for you.

[00:02:29] 100%. And if I’m being honest, I actually worry for the future generation and you know, for the generations that are up and coming. Because, Because, of the digital world that we live in, it allows for you to kind of hide behind the screen. It allows you to kind of like not have to interact with a person.

[00:02:46] You can interact via email and back in the day, you had to be like face, you know that you had to be client facing, you had to be on the phone. Calling the clients, having to deal with the knock backs and all of that. And in this day and age, you kind of like can avoid it. So those social mobility skills, you’re kind of missing out on it.

[00:03:03] But for me, being a salesperson, you need to have the gift of the gab. You need to think on your feet. You need to be able to like pivot the conversation to align with what you wanna achieve out of there. And it is a real skill.

[00:03:14] It absolutely is. And you said, I just wanted to pick up on that you said you can avoid it because for the younger listeners. I think Evelyn makes such a strong point there. You can avoid picking up the phone, but I guess my question back to you is, would you avoid it though?

[00:03:30] Oh, okay. So this is gonna be slightly unpopular, I think. Over the years of, certainly when I started in media sales, you had no choice. We didn’t have the choices that we have now, right? We didn’t have the digital tools that we had, and so picking up the phone was the only way to communicate with a client. But now we’re living in a, a digital world where you can communicate with people at different touchpoint. In different ways. I do not get, I don’t, I don’t get on the phone, right? So I rarely get on the phone. I only get on the phone with a client who is an existing client, one who I’m already working with, one who I already have a relationship with, but that’s due to the nature of the role that I do. I think for sellers, you need to be comfortable getting on the phone. And also you need to be comfortable in understanding when to get on the phone because you have to map what you do based on your customer’s behavior. And if they are, you know, like if you can’t catch them at lunchtime, if you’re gonna catch them when they’re doing the laundry or whatever, like you have to pick your moments. And I think that’s the difficulty now with getting on the phone, but people are still doing it. I have heard so many salespeople who are on the phone and they’re getting results. I don’t know. Lauren, are you on the phone? Do you pick up the phone?

[00:04:36] Yeah, it’s an interesting one. Um, I would say it’s such an important tactic and tool. Um, the company that I joined two years ago, um, I relocated to New York to take this role and so there was a lot of hustle and grind and. Trying to win new business and get clients aware of like what we’re trying to achieve in this market.

[00:04:58] And it was a lot of cold calling. It was, and it, I mean, there’s a funny story once where I cold called someone’s mom, didn’t know it was her mom left a voicemail and she wasn’t best pleased, but. I obviously groveled and apologized and I said to her, look, let me take you out for lunch. I’m really sorry I didn’t like, it’s just one of those things, the data wasn’t correct.

[00:05:19] She’s actually become a really good friend of mine.

[00:05:22] No.

[00:05:22] Yeah,

[00:05:23] How interested is that?

[00:05:25] Because, and I’d say that to sellers, like, don’t be afraid of the phone. It’s just people at the end of the day, and you can build some incredible relationships and connections once you get that in-person meeting. That’s really where things thrive.

[00:05:38] So I wonder, you’ve sold across so many different areas, right? I’ve, I’ve run through your bio at the beginning, media fashion, enterprise B2B now. So if you think about, a lot of people listening might be thinking, alright, I wanna pivot into maybe that more enterprise sales. What skills really transfer? And what do you think is often a little bit underestimated in this industry?

[00:06:05] So I think the world of sales and the world of work that we do and the skills that we have. Has to lend itself to caring about people. If you wanna be a sales leader, if you wanna manage people, if you want to win clients, you need to care about them, care about the people you work with, and care about the clients that, or the potential clients that you wanna work with.

[00:06:27] So I think the first thing is you have to care about other people. And if that’s something that you do not do naturally and you cannot do, then this is definitely not the workforce for you. Because within sales, not only are you gonna get. Many knock backs. The saying that people buy people is ever true. People will buy what you sell based on how they, how you make them feel. And if you can’t make them feel good about themselves, make, make them feel good about the work that they do, you know what their business looks like, they’re not gonna buy into you. And so I think that’s the ultimate skill, being able to care about people.

[00:07:00] And I know that kind of moves away from like those tactical, uh, you know, selling skills of whether you can speak a certain way or whatever. I don’t think that’s important. Care about the people you’re speaking to and you will win them. It happens all the time.

[00:07:12] Such a good tip. It really is. I always, I, I remember doing a podcast a couple of years back before I launched my own, and I was a guest and I said that sales is a helping, caring profession.

[00:07:24] And the guys interviewing me were kind of laughing, um, and they were like, wow, I’ve never heard that before. And I said, well, think about it.

[00:07:32] Our job is helping buyers. But also when you get to know the person, you really have to care about them. So I wonder, have you got an example of a time or a relationship with a buyer that you’ve built that really showed how much you cared?

[00:07:49] Oh my goodness, I’ve got so many. I mean, I think one of the things that I love doing, and you know, for anyone that’s listening that’s wondering, you know, how do I tap into a client, uh, like get to know them without maybe getting on the phone. I always say that follow the journey of your customer digitally. And what that means is like. Connect with them on LinkedIn, maybe connect with them on Instagram, try and find out about their life also out of work without stalking them. There are, you know, there are great ways to do that and I think once you kind of like paint a picture around understanding who they are or what they do, that is how you can then tap into like whether it’s a comment or you know, whether it’s like a message that you send them that’s relevant to the work that they do.

[00:08:28] And that’s something that I do on a daily basis in my job. Um, um, I can’t disclose the name of the client. Or even the businesses. But there’s a, a lady that I met her in the event and I started speaking to her and because we were on the same page, I’d been following her and I knew that she was really, really into, um, jungle music, which is like back in the day.

[00:08:48] And that was kind of like my in way with her. Um, we just got along. Immediately we got along. Immediately she was like, oh my gosh, drop me a note. We didn’t even start off by talking about business, but over the course of three to six months, we built a relationship and then of course, businesses did become aligned, what I was working on versus the, um, the client, the, the client that she is, um, really made it make sense.

[00:09:12] And so we were able to then build, you know, what turned out to be a seven figure, um, partnership. And that was just ultimately because I knew that she loved jungle music.

[00:09:22] I love that example, and I think it really ties into. Like the reputation of sellers. I think we get a bad reputation because people think you need to sell immediately. You don’t at all. There’s an example I’ve got of when I moved here to New York and we hosted a round table, which is designed to bring people together to have good conversation.

[00:09:44] We weren’t there to pitch, we weren’t there to sell. We were there to connect marketers so that they could have an environment where they learnt and one of the girls couldn’t come. And so I followed her up and said, look, you live in Brooklyn. I live in the city. I’ve just moved here. I’d love to come to where you live and just go for a walk.

[00:10:04] How would you feel about that? And she said, that would be really nice, actually. And I said, do you like dogs? And she said, yeah, I do. So I brought my dog and we walked all along Brooklyn. It was a beautiful like spring day, and we spent two hours together. Right, you now, when would you get that

[00:10:20] Two hours.

[00:10:21] Two hours because, and then we got to know each other personally. We got to know our challenges and our pain points in our job and actually what she was struggling with professionally. We have tools and products that really could help her. And again, my colleagues laugh at me, Evelyn, because. Most of my clients become my friends.

[00:10:41] She’s coming to my birthday in a couple of

[00:10:43] No way.

[00:10:44] Yeah, because why not? You know,

[00:10:46] I love that.

[00:10:48] that’s what’s gonna happen.

[00:10:50] Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that.

[00:10:52] So the next question for me, this is the bit that really stood out for me. Firstly, love your profile on LinkedIn. I think sellers have a look at Evelyn’s profile. What she’s done so well is you’ve really formulated a brand for yourself and something that you’re really passionate about.

[00:11:10] So we’ve just talked about. The kind of presale you are. Like, I wanna research the people I, I’m potentially selling to really deeply understand them. But once you’ve got that conversation going, there’s a lot of work, right? You’re sending them information and you’re having to follow them up and you brand yourself as the follow up queen.

[00:11:30] I do.

[00:11:31] Love this. Um, so talk to me a bit, a bit about that. Like where did that come from? And then for the listeners, ’cause this is key following up is an art and it’s a strategy. What does that look like in practice? What does good look like for

[00:11:48] Yeah.

[00:11:48] Yeah. Really, really, I love, I love this question. I could talk about follow up forever. I would like to say that I had picked, you know, it’d be nice to say that I selected a name follow up Queen, but I didn’t. I am, I’ve been on LinkedIn for a number of years and my role entails. Meeting with and looking after existing client, but also trying to unlock new logos.

[00:12:10] That’s part of the roles that I’ve done over the last 10 years. And so what I started doing was sharing my experience, what good looks like when you’re trying to reach out to client or trying to win a client and what bad looks like, and all of a sudden I just. Started talking about follow up, like, and the reason why I started talking about, it’s because any seller that’s listening knows that follow up is part of what you do.

[00:12:29] It’s not even like a thing, it’s just what you do. Right? You have to follow up. Um, and then I, when I went to an event about two years ago, someone was like, oh, you follow up Queen. And I was just like, me. It’s like, oh, you’re onto something, and that’s how it stuck. I was just like, yeah, absolutely. I am the follow up queen because that is all I speak about and the reason why I do it now.

[00:12:51] Now I’m more strategic about how I talk about follow up, is because I believe that follow up is the cheat code to success, and I’m talking even outside of sales. If you think about, I mean, you’re married, Lauren, if you think about your partner, he had to follow up in order for you. To be married to him that he had to, otherwise, your relationship wouldn’t have been built.

[00:13:09] It wouldn’t have got to where it needed to get to in order for you to then decide you wanted him to be your husband, to to be your husband. So the essence of following up is important in every respect of what we do. Now, when we bring it back into sales and when we think about what does that look like, people think, okay, I’m just following up.

[00:13:26] I’m sending an email. I’ve met someone, had a great time with them. Now I’m gonna follow up. That’s what everyone does. Just following up, it was really nice to meet you. That means nothing. It does nothing. You have to have a follow up strategy. Now, what that looks like is, are you gonna share something with them that’s going to change their thinking about their business first, not what you are gonna offer them. A lot of people think, oh, I’ve met this person, so now I’m just gonna sell to them. I’m gonna send them my deck. I’m gonna send them everything that we do. No, you need to understand their business. So the question is. When you’re putting together a follow up, whether it, you know, if it’s a follow up email, you have to make sure that that email is offering them something that’s valuable.

[00:14:05] If you are offering them something valuable, you will almost always get a response. And that response is then what levels you up to how you communicate with them further. And I think people miss this bit because they’re like, I’ve met someone, it’s been great. I’m just gonna follow up. And it’s like, have you done your research?

[00:14:21] Do you understand what buying cycle they’re in? Are they the decision makers? Are they the right people to speak to? Really understanding the person who you are communicating with before you follow up is what is gonna unlock the next email, the next conversation, and hopefully closing a deal.

[00:14:36] And let’s give some maybe tactical examples here of what you’d follow up with, because I also think it’s an interesting one, depending on the size of the business you work at.

[00:14:46] I’ve worked at some large companies where we have. An armory of content and helpful articles and blogs and things that I can circulate quite easily.

[00:14:58] And I’ve worked at smaller companies where we don’t have as much of that. And so I do a lot of work similar to you going, who is this customer that I’m reaching out to? How can I understand them? What maybe are their peers saying in this similar space to them? How can I share that? So can you give some tactical examples of how you do it and what you share?

[00:15:19] So I think in 2026, as a salesperson, you really need to understand how to use ai. Ai generative AI saves. You a lot of time, everything that you are saying, Lauren, in terms of like the research that you do, understanding who they are. We used to do that manually. You know, you go on Google, you do the search, you look at the annual reports, you try and understand the business.

[00:15:40] We don’t need to do that anymore. So you can use the likes of, um, you know, chat, GPT or Claude or, uh, perplexity, which is a really, really good app, and you can use all of those to really kind of paint a picture around. Who is this person and where is the opportunity? But more importantly, where does the buy-in signal?

[00:15:58] What, where does the buying cycle fall into play and how can I like tap into them? I think once you’ve done this piece of work, which the reality could take you half an hour, could take you two hours, depending on how intense you wanna be. But I think when you do have that. You should be able to collate enough information for you to then decide, okay, how am I now gonna communicate with them?

[00:16:16] And for me, I always go in with just a little ex explanation in the, in the start of the email with. It was lovely to meet you and paint the picture around where I met them because especially when you’re dealing with very senior people, they could have met 50 people. You’re one of 50, you think you had a great chat.

[00:16:31] They’re like, you’re one of 50. So it’s always about painting the picture We met at this event, it was great to speak to you, talk about my business, talk about what you were doing, whatever it is. And then the next sense, that sentence really needs to be about why you are being in touch with them. Like what is it that they need to think about that’s going to make them think, ah. Evelyn is someone that I need to continue speaking to. What has she told me that I don’t already know? So sharing things like, and I’ve seen this being circulated on Instagram, on, I’m sorry, on LinkedIn, where they’re like, you know, share something about their business. I know that your CMO has just recently left a business that is not Intel.

[00:17:04] You’re giving them stuff they already know. You’re giving them stuff that Google search can do. Tell them something they do not know. So for me, it would be, I will tell them what their competitor is doing. That, you know, based on the research that I’ve done, the competitors doing something that I know is a pain point for them, the only way I can know that information is by the research that I’ve done. And the only reason why I can tell them about a competitor is because we’ve worked with them. There’s no point in me talking about something that has no relevance to them because that’s how you lose them overnight.

[00:17:35] Beautiful. What I’m hearing here is like personalization number one, because you’re so right Evelyn, to point out. We can sometimes think that we’ve had a great conversation but. They speak to so many of us. I mean, my, the industry I’m in is so saturated, oversaturated, and competitive. You have to firstly be distinctive and stand out in that first chat.

[00:17:58] Secondly, make sure that personalized follow up really speaks to what happened in that conversation. And then what I was hearing a lot there, and this is how I position it with my team, I have a rule in my company, which is no chasing. I hate chasing. Just wanted to see if you have an update on that. No. No chasing add value.

[00:18:17] Help them. And I think what I heard from you is, is problem based selling. So great. You might have found out that the CMO has left that company. That’s a trigger. But what does that mean? What problem is that gonna to give the person you’re trying to sell to? And I’m telling you.

[00:18:35] The big leadership person is leaving the board.

[00:18:37] That’s gonna cause them quite a lot of challenges. So you’ve got to be like, look, I, I know there’s leadership changes for you. This may mean you might be challenged in this area.

[00:18:47] I’ve also worked with other companies that have gone through a similar thing to you. Empathize, this is how I think I can help you.

[00:18:54] This is how I can help you navigate that next step of change. And I think far too often sellers go product. First, not problem first.

[00:19:04] Yeah, I mean we, honestly, I, I’ve done it so many times because it’s the easier option. The, the, what I’ve described to you and what you are describing to me in terms of what the, what the narrative of your email should look like, takes time. It’s not easy, you know, it’s not, uh, I’m just gonna start typing and it’s all gonna come to me.

[00:19:21] You have to put the work together, and that’s why I call it. Follow up strategy, like you have to have a follow up strategy, and that means doing your research, doing your due diligence on who you are speaking to, and understanding how you’re going to communicate with them in a way that they are gonna respond.

[00:19:35] Because anyone can send an email. What we’re trying to get to is a response that’s going to trigger the opportunity to move the conversation along.

[00:19:43] Absolutely. I, um, another strategy I look at as well as like the cost of inaction. Are you familiar with that

[00:19:50] Oh no, tell me more.

[00:19:51] So the cost of inaction is about basically saying to that person, like, if you don’t act on your problem now, which I can help you solve, this could cause X, Y, Z for you later down the line. And I think a lot of that comes from what you say, and I love it when you say, this could actually take you half an hour.

[00:20:09] Like stop thinking that your follow up is gonna take you five minutes. Actually, it’s the most important part is going, what is happening for that person because. I think as sellers, we always think about what our goal is. Our goal is to hit, to get revenue and to hit targets. That’s not what the customer’s goal is.

[00:20:28] They do not care that you need to report to the board about your forecast. They don’t care. And if you go, if you approach it that way, you’re gonna really annoy them. But they do care that if they don’t act on this problem they have now,

[00:20:43] it is going to be hard for them in the future. So it’s kind of, yeah, cost of inaction.

[00:20:48] And that kind of brings it back to, you know, the skillset that’s required as a sales leader. As a sales individual, you’ve gotta care about your client. You’ve gotta care about that potential customer. And that shows even in on, on email, which shows when you reach out to them, what you say to them will tell them immediately whether you care about their business or you just care about winning another client.

[00:21:09] Yeah, absolutely. It goes back to what you were saying at the beginning, like connection, truly and utterly care, caring, giving back, doing your research. Um, and I think if anyone can take anything away from this is like, have a look at Evelyn’s branding around the follow up Queen and like build this into your strategy.

[00:21:30] No more chasing, because you know what it does, it ruins the reputation for all of us in sales when I say that all the time. It’s annoying.

[00:21:40] So annoying. Do you know what I do now? And I think every seller should do this. When I receive a, a cold email and I receive a lot of cold emails and also cold LinkedIn dms. If it’s sent as a blanket email and they’ve sent it with either an incorrect, a correction with my, like, my name’s not correct, they don’t understand my role.

[00:22:03] So for example, someone said, hi, Evelyn. Um, I know that you have loads of lawyers on your books. I wanted to ask if you need anymore. Like, that’s obviously not my work. That’s not what I do. That’s nothing to do with my role. They obviously haven’t done their research. Now, when this happens. And I get a lot of this, as I said, I respond back and I say to them, do better in the nicest politest way.

[00:22:22] I say, look, I am not this person. I don’t have experience in this. This is not my forte. Please do more work. Please get better at how you’re communicating with people because you’re going to ruin it for the rest of us.

[00:22:37] And it’s really, it’s just, do you,

[00:22:40] Yes. I mean,

[00:22:41] I love that.

[00:22:42] I do it as well because so WISE was started to inspire more women into sales, but there is a spinoff of wise, which is something I’m hoping to build in the future, which is called the Sales Revolution Community. If anyone’s interested, it’s on my website, which is.

[00:22:57] Um, www.femaleleader.com and there’s a section called the Sale, the Sales, uh, revolution Community, which is all about trying to get sellers to do better. To your point, because this is an amazing field and we do such good work, but when sellers, if you reach out to people like Evelyn and I have been reached out to all the time, and you get details wrong.

[00:23:23] It’s really frustrating for us because you are doing us a disservice when we spend a lot of time researching and doing things right by our customers. So please, please do it right, and if you don’t, we will call you out.

[00:23:36] yes, yes. Let’s all do it to make the industry better.

[00:23:40] That’s it. Right? That’s it. So let, let’s talk about the industry because, um, if you’re comfortable going there, we’ve spoken a lot about, um, you know, working our way through an industry where we don’t see as many people that look like us. Um, and, and making sure that that doesn’t limit us. So what’s that been like for you, I guess, and and what would you say to younger women who are trying to break into sales and trying to figure out where she belongs?

[00:24:08] Yeah, that’s a really good question. Um, I think what’s really interesting about that question is that when I look back at my, um, experience and my journey in sales, I knew I was one of very few black women in, um, media cells. In the UK that was doing the work that I was doing, but I actually never experienced any racism.

[00:24:31] I didn’t experience any of the micro, uh, aggressive behavior that we see being spoken about nowadays. So I was very fortunate in my journey that I was celebrated, I was given the opportunity to rise the ranks. I didn’t feel like there was kind of like anyone stopping me or not allowing me to do it. What I did struggle with though was seeing represent representation ahead of me. So like I’d been, I’m in this new industry, I don’t really know much about media sales. I have a media studies degree, but I don’t really know what advertising is all about, and I couldn’t see anyone who looked like me that was in a more senior position. So I guess I. Traveled in my journey without really thinking, oh, this could be something that I do forever. And that was because I really didn’t see anyone that looked like me. Now let’s fast forward it to 2026. I think there’s so much, so many amazing women who are doing great work, who are really rising the ranks, and in the midst of all of that, they’re pulling the younger generation. Within those, you know, communities to come up to come into this industry.

[00:25:34] Here are the opportunities, here are the tools, here are the initiatives. I’m almost jealous about the season that we are in right now, which is for young people. You have no excuse. There are so many helpers out there, including myself. I’m, I’m a mentor. I’m all about. You know, speak to me. Let me know what you are doing.

[00:25:51] I will tell you what I know, and I will help you get up that ladder. I feel like it has changed. I’m not saying it’s perfect. I don’t think it’s ever gonna be perfect for black women. It’s never gonna be perfect for women in general, but I think we’re doing, we’re doing all right. We’re getting better.

[00:26:06] Slowly but surely.

[00:26:08] Oh, I love that. And I, I agree. I mean, I. All my senior leaders in every single one of my jobs has been a man, but such a huge advocate. You know,

[00:26:19] I’ve, and I think that’s a, that’s a call out whenever I talk about wise. It’s, it’s absolutely not to berate men in our field, actually. They’re wonderful. And I’ve had the most incredible mentors that are men, I think, similar to you.

[00:26:32] I’m just like. I just want more people, uh, women to see this as a really fun industry. And I think, Evelyn, you’re a perfect example of that. Like when I speak to you, you, you light up when you talk about selling you, it sounds like you get excited. You get up in the morning and you’ve gotta bounce and you step because you’re working with really cool people and you’re doing something you love.

[00:26:52] That is. So, so important. So I guess kind of leading into my last question, and then I’ve got some quick fire for you as well. Um, but you know, you, you’ve openly said, and we can feel it as I’m talking to you. You love selling, you love speaking to clients. We’ve also talked openly about the money. That comes with sales.

[00:27:13] I never went into sales to make loads of money. Some people do. Um, but that just came. But it’s also a great thing to be able to make good money off the back of our work. Um, so for women listening who feel maybe they need to like tone it down their ambition, I, I think we’ve never toned it down. What would you say about owning what you want and being really loud and proud about that?

[00:27:39] I think there is no better time than now to be alive and to be in the workforce. I. I’m totally against any person, whether male or female, that is thinking about turning down anything. Do not tone down yourself. If anything, be audacious. You know, go out there and do the thing that either you don’t think you are good enough for.

[00:28:01] Because there is so much room to learn. There’s so much room to be challenged, and there’s also room for your unique, um, your, your uniqueness. I was listening to a podcast just yesterday with Mel Robin. And she was talking about how she had kind of risen the ranks, you know, from being like the number one podcaster, et cetera.

[00:28:20] And she was like, there is, she was like, there’s so much tools out there, so much opportunity for you to learn so many things. And she goes, you can copy the things that other people do, but guess what? It’s always gonna be your thing because you are you and no one can ever be you. And I just thought. I mean, I had a bit of like, I dunno about that, but I thought, yeah, for real I can do my own thing and I will stand out because it is my own thing.

[00:28:43] So for any woman that is listening that is thinking, oh, I wanna get into cells. I don’t really know the angle, just do it. Be ballsy, be audacious. Get in there. There is absolutely room for you. And many more to join.

[00:28:57] Ah, Evelyn for president. Literally, you get my vote.

[00:29:03] Sorry, you’re so kind.

[00:29:05] Such a wonderful way to finish up. So, last three questions. Quick fire, ask guests the same question. Always find it really interesting the answers we get. And at the end of each year, I kind of consolidate. I did a video on it the other day about my 2025 guests. And what they said. So the first one for me is the one I love the most, which is, if you had to pick one trait, just one.

[00:29:27] What do you think is most critical for a sales leader today?

[00:29:32] Has perseverance.

[00:29:34] Such a big one. So, so true because we talk about the exciting and the positives of sales, but it’s also really hard guys. And you need to persevere and you need to have hustle and grit. Nice.

[00:29:46] Absolutely.

[00:29:47] Beautiful. What about, um, a female sales leader, maybe a mentor, or anyone you’ve a podcaster? Mel Robbins is awesome.

[00:29:57] That has inspired you on your journey.

[00:30:00] So someone who has inspired me right from the start of my journey is a lady called Vanessa King Gori. She’s currently managing director at um, Google. And when I started in media, she was the only person that I saw that was like two levels ahead of me. That was black, that was in media sales. And it’s just so amazing to have seen her journey and how she’s pivoted from being business director at Conde Nas, you know, first black woman to do that.

[00:30:27] And now she’s in technology and she’s at a very senior role at Google. She’s really inspired me because she’s shown what grit and, you know, being, you know, like being strong on your word and being excellent at your work, what that leads to. So she’s incredibly inspiring to me.

[00:30:41] Amazing. And send me her LinkedIn. I’ll put that in the article as well so everyone can follow her and see what she’s doing. And talking about, I, I must say that women are, that have become part of my network from this. It’s phenomenal. They inspire me every day. Um, and then what about books? I always say you have to, you know, self-develop to stay sharp.

[00:31:01] Oh yeah. All the time, like especially ’cause you, you commented how fast this industry is moving with ai. Um, what significantly approached your view of sales leadership? A book, maybe a

[00:31:14] Yeah, so a book that I always talk about and recommend, and I’m just gonna mention it, but I’m gonna tell you another book. The book that I always talk about is The Challenger Sale.

[00:31:23] Are you, you Challenger seller? You’ve got to read it, Matthew Dixon. It’s brilliant. It’s excellent. However, what I’m reading right now is Deep Work by Carl Newport.

[00:31:34] Have you read it?

[00:31:35] I know Carl Newport, but no, I haven’t read that one.

[00:31:38] Yeah, it’s really, really good. So he talks about how in this world and has, its like fast moving, everyone’s doing the things at Shallow. So for a sales person, it’s like sending emails and you know, doing spreadsheets and looking at your CRM tools. What he says is you should spend more time doing the deep work, which is the hard work, doing the thing that’s difficult because it’s the thing that’s difficult, that’s going to be deemed more valuable. Don’t be so moved with the noise and everything that’s going around and just doing what shallow level do the thing that’s actually hard and learn how to do that quickly. And when you do, that’s how you win. So as a sales leader, it’s super important for us to be able to delegate on the things that are not as important and focus on the thing that’s going to move the needle.

[00:32:17] For us, it’s revenue.

[00:32:18] It really is, and I think that’s such a perfect way to finish up Evelyn, because I think it also ties into the quality I’m feeling like from this episode, what I’m learning is quality over quantity as well. I think with your follow up queen. Like persona and all the work you do, deep work to understand your customers, how you follow them up.

[00:32:38] And I think it’s not rushing. I think that’s what I’m taking away from this is like do the deep quality work.

[00:32:45] You know, really connect with your customers and actually you don’t need to do a hundred outreaches, you might need to do 10 and you’ll win just as big.

[00:32:53] exactly. I’m actually gonna use exactly what you’ve said for my next post because that is,

[00:32:59] That is follow up is deep work. It is deep work.

[00:33:03] Love it.

[00:33:04] Thank you for that, and thank you for being such a wonderful guest, a wonderful person. You’re very inspiring. You’ve done some awesome things and I’m so grateful that you came onto the podcast.

[00:33:15] Thank you so,

[00:33:15] much for having me. It’s been such a delight to have this conversation.

[00:33:19] thank you so much. Good luck with everything, Evelyn.

[00:33:21] Thank you.